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While researching another unrelated item , I stumbled onto some interesting items ---- In 1970 the operating cost of our aircraft in HAL-3 was $15.25 per hour !!! no kidding !!! and that INCLUDES FUEL !!! other units operation of like aircraft under AirPacs, was $16.50 per hour ( I would guess that had to mean Army ) --- and in 1971, a total expenditure for the squadron was $436,255.69 ---- of which $293,108.82 was for FUEL !! --- $143,146.87 went for NSA items (no clue about ammo or if weapons were included anywhere but when looking at ammo expenditures, I don't believe it could have been ) which came to $12.78 per hour of flight cost total compared to AirPacs same a/c cost again of $16.50 . Think about that guys -- we were fueling and fixing the helos for LESS than my Truck uses an hour for Diesel in Oklahoma at $3.25 a gallon today , never mind tires etc !!!!!!! I might also add, that as a E-5 , over 4, w/ flight pay and all the "trimmings" I was being paid $525 a month --- which boils down to if I flew 10 combat missions in a day, I was being paid $1.75 per flight to get shot at, and the rest of the day was for free !!
Also interesting was that in '71 34,823.5 hrs were flown by HAL-3 aircraft --- B's, C's, And M's flew 20,829 hrs (that is the gunships) --- and 9,600 hrs were flown by the Sealords !! ---- that would basically mean that if 2 gunships flew together an hour it would equal 2 flight hours ---- Soooooooooo for every hour a fire team was in the air, the Sealords were also flying an hour !!!!
A surprising fact that came out of the same "history" is that Captain Borgstrom has a Mountain named after him in ANTARTICA from his service there in '65-'66 with VX-6 !!!!!!!!! It is Mt Borgstrom !!
In 1971, the only way a enlisted crewman got a Bronze star was if he was KIA !! --- No enlisted was awarded one who survived his tour in '71 however , several officers were recipients.
Of the 16 purple Hearts listed for 1971, 10 of them were to Det 1 personal
The only Silver Star awarded in '71 was to LTJG Russell Hallover
In 1970, Det 3 was credited with a compessor stall while at Solid Anchor, and a second compressor stall on the SAME DAY at Ca Mou !!! This especially drew my interest, but the compressor stalls were credited to 2 different Buro numbers !
This all is from the command history of 1970 and 1971 ----- now, I grant you that I have no way of knowing, for instance, if awards received after departure from HAL-3 were some how accounted for in this tally, but maybe it means that on the squadron level these awards were approved during this time pending higher ups in Saigon having a "go " at it ----- but then again, that would be pretty confusing also due to the popular application of downgrading that was done during 70 and 71 .
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And I heard somewhere that today to fly a B model would cost about $600 an hour for fuel alone, not to mention everything else. That is a real big difference. Guess the Navy got of pretty cheap! LOL
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As for fuel, we used lot's of Army fuel in Det 8, the Long Strip in the south and the Cement Plant in the North.
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yeah, that fuel number would be a dandy to track down what they used for figures ------ but there wasn't any road tax on it and LBJ might have been getting some cream off of the transporting it (Lady Bird had a construction/ marine shipping company over there ) soooo a lot of gallons would have been cheap then
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Was thinking how many tanks of fuel that was flown that was not charged to us because flying into a empty airfield and hand pump the fuel from a 55 gal drum and fly off
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The Gunner seating next to me .. was awarded a Bronze Star in 1971 time frame. I will attempt to have him tell the story once I get ahold of him..
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Mike, fellow wolves, I am of the belief that I was awarded a Bronze star for Meritorious service. The action was between the Michelm rubber plantation and the river. I spotted a north Vietnamese swapping uniforms with a dead Arvin from the ambushed convoy we were there to help. we were circling for medevac pickup and providing cover fire. As we were coming around I reported this over intercom. I also saw the hole he was coming out of, which ked to the river bank where there was a hole and a sunken (with stones) boat. I remember dropping smoke on the hole. I may have dreamed this but my head is swiveling on my shoulders as I type. The award was stolen from work in 2016, but I believe I made a copy.
Pete,
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I have no doubt about your bronze star Mark -- that was quite a nite --- I was over you guys that night ------ the records are no doubt, incomplete --- pretty hard to get it all right in what must have been a blizzard of paperwork . they also changed the air medal reporting for end of tour in '71 --- in '70 they listed the total count for the end of tour boys --- in 71 they did not list the tally numbers -- interesting stuff though !!
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Administrator
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Sorry Mark,
I only show 2 Strike/Flight Air Medals and 1 Individual Action Air Medal for you below:
Name: Mark Joseph Pitre
Award Date: 3 Aug 1971
Type of Medal: Air Medal-Strike/Flight
Military Unit: 06821
Military Regiment: Fleet
Military Service Branch: Navy
Action: Meritorious
Office: Enlisted
Awarded By: Commander Naval Forces Vietnam
Name: Mark Joseph Pitre
Award Date: 20 Apr 1972
Type of Medal: Air Medal-Strike/Flight
Military Unit: 06821
Military Regiment: Fleet
Military Service Branch: Navy
Action: Meritorious
Office: Enlisted
Awarded By: Commander Naval Forces Vietnam
Name: Mark Joseph Pitre
Award Date: 15 May 1972
Type of Medal: Air Medal-Individual Action
Military Unit: 06821
Military Service Branch: Navy
Action: Heroic
Office: Enlisted
Awarded By: Commander in Chief U.S. Pacific Fleet
**Note: That doesn't mean you didn't get a Bronze Star, because this is a brand new Database that I found only on Ancestry.com and they are still adding more awards, and I'm still going through it on a Daily basis until I catch up.
(HA(L)-3 has made a lot of work for someone!) Especially Purple Hearts! They only have newer ones awarded so far (25 for Navy) and they are from 1976 and up.
I did a search just now and that's what it showed. If you find your copy, I would appreciate a copy so I can officially add it to the Squadron records.
Dan
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Dan, is the database on Ancestry com accessible by anyone with an Ancestry account? What is it listed under. I use Ancestry to track my family tree.
Lee
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Administrator
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Lee,
You DO HAVE TO PAY A MEMBERSHIP to Ancestry.com, but if you already have a Membership, yes you can access it.
I started many years ago building my Family Tree (I should say my wife's Family Tree, as I can only go as high as my Grandfather (who I never met) on my paternal side.)
But the answer to your question is Yes. You go to the top left side where it says "Search" click enter, and a drop down box comes down and you enter "Military" then at the top right corner in the "Narrow By Category" click "Awards & Decorations of Honor" and search. As you may know, if you click a search field as "exact", you may not pull anything up if you spelled it wrong or the name on the award may have been spelled wrong.
"Bronze Star" is pretty easy, but Air Medals are searched by "Air Medal-Flight/Strike" or "Air Medal-Individual Action".
Best to start by entering your Name just like you do for your ancestor searches, like Hirschel for Last Name & "Exact", then if you get a bunch of Hirschel's, narrow the search with your first name as "Exact" to just get Lee Hirschel's.
You have to play with it and can also narrow the search by a year of the award (Exact), etc.
Try entering Hirschel in Last Name field, but don't enter "Exact" and you'll see what I mean. You get different spellings, WWII Medals, etc. then start narrowing.
You can also move the cursor over to the left side where it says "View Record" and just hover to see what it says. It will not give the citation or much info other than the name of the award, Date, and I also forgot to say the "Military Unit" box in the Search Field is where you enter 6821 (our HA(L)-3 Unit ID).
Also under that box that came up in the last sentence, you will see below the search box on the left, a list of other databases. Click on:
"U.S., Navy and Marines Awards and Decorations, 1942-1994" to narrow to Navy Awards, and the best one is "Vietnam War, Awards and Decorations of Honor, 1965-1972", although you won't get any after 1972 that might have been awarded after you left.
Again, they are still trying to catch up with HA(L)-3 awards and I didn't pull up any on you, but keep trying from time to time. And they do not have the Combat Action Ribbon's yet.
And it's a whole other ball game for the HC-1 Dets who received a lot of awards from the Army and different Army Units as well.
Dan
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Dan.. thanks for the heads-up concerning the Ancestry info and the how to.
On the mission Mark is talking about I recall the stories from my gunners upon their return.. I sure do wish there was a book out of all our stories, many will just pass into history never being made aware to we all or public..
I also know that both the FTL and Pilot in #2 Bird were put in for DFC's.. Steve Cramer & Charles,(Chuck) White.. I do not know if either ever received them as my extension was ending and I went bak across the pond..
Upon visiting Mark, down in Alabama many years bak.. I recall reading his award letter and seeing his Bronze Star.. hard for me to understand why anyone would steal it off his desk.. (The thief outa be shot starting at the ankles)
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Administrator
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I don't find a DFC for either one of them Kid.
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Thanks Dan.
I have tracked my father's family back to 1500's and mother's side back to 1600's time frame. Interesting for sure.
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Another fumble within the ranks... I'll tell you this, from the events of said mission, and stories the Gunners and Pilots spoke of with me thru the years, Bear being on the fifty, Mark L/D Lead Bird, Trail Bird, George Wallace, mini-gun, (RIP-suicide) Fark R/D...and so forth. Everyone of them deserve recognition, "AWARDS"... for their part in surviving the ambush that awaited them, just outside the michelin rubber plantation sumtime towards the end of 1971... I recall Mr Stoner, Det 6 CO, announcing to us card players, he was writing up award papers for his men.. (He was not impressed easily) I believe most of we, Seawolves, know this tale all to well and have our own stories with those we flew, and awards that never arrived.. We all see the numbers Dan puts up here month after month.. I'm thinking I might write-up one or sum mission stories for sharing here. Ponder on it ya'll..
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not to worry Kid, we seem to be finding a lot of holes in the whole record system --- finding more than the reported count in some areas, and less in others, but Dan is bulldogging it. Are there any PN's or squadron awards officers out there that may be able to offer some insight as to how the medal sequence from action to award went ??
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I encourage all to contribute their stories ..... I have done some, and could do more, ------ we all know the stories after 50 years will have air gaps , and no crew sees the mission exactly the same, but I do think it is important , and I would like to know more intimately what my brothers on other Dets, and on my own Det when I wasn't there, did .
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Dan - shouldn't this be listed on Mark's DD-250? When I retired from the navy, all my awards were listed.
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Administrator
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Well you got me there Mike. I had no idea what a DD-250 was so I googled it and it shows some sort of Contractor Reports. DD-250Regardless of the Form#, I would not be able to access anyone's Forms.
A few years ago, I had found a DOD Website that I could access to find awards with a File#/Service# except for guys reporting after March 1970 when they converted over to SSN's. The other option for the site was to use the last 6 numbers of a SSN, and I did do a few searches for guys who wanted to see what they had. The site didn't always give all the awards though. It didn't have my 3rd Navy Commendation Medal.
I also used awards found in the Squadron Diary reports for '69, '70-'71, and a few Wolfgram's that mentioned some awards given.
So other than that, I had no real full accounting of Awards to try to justify the Awards Count on our Website, until Ancestry.com started adding them. Since then, I have matched some of the Award counts already, exceeded some, and have different awards to add as well, such as the Navy & Marine Corps Medal, Joint Service Commendation Medal, Combat Action Ribbon, Army Commendation Medal, and a few other Republic of Vietnam Awards besides the 142 Gallantry Crosses on the website currently.
Anyway, it's still a work in progress!
Dan
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>>the 142 Gallantry Crosses on the website currently.
AFAIR ...the Gallantry Cross is a geedunk medal like the
national defense. ie: everybody in country got one.
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