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I am a long time admirer of the Seawolves. My father was a doorgunner in the 190th AHC out of Bien Hoa and one of his gunships ended up with HAL-3 in 1970. My main reason for trying to get this color question straight is that I am a scale modeler, and I'd like to build my dad's bird after she went to the Seawolves. I have done quite a bit of research and felt pretty confident about all black Hueys in some Dets, especially 70-71 time frame but there still seems to be some doubt from some former Seawolf crewmen. I am hoping that one of you guys can confirm if there were any all black Hueys in your Detachment. My buddy Joseph Osborn spent a lot of time researching the dark color seen on many Seawolf Hueys for his Seawolf decal set and even he called the color "glossy green/black" as he had no definitive answer. Joseph also notes that "each Seawolf was a unique specimen." However, that dark color is common to a number of Seawolf Hueys, and I hope either a crewman or some maintenance guys somewhere will know what color they sprayed on these helos. Thanks so much for your time and thanks for your service!
Ray
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Ray, the Seawolves had NO black Gunships,
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Ray -- Myself and another plankowner Seawolf created the color we used in 1967 when we started getting our gunships from the Army. We did not want our birds to be just olive drab , so to make our choppers unique , we did mix in some gloss black in our formula. The finished color certainly would take on a variety of appearances , depending on the light . Many times looking daker at times. Our gunships had a look of thier own and they looked great. I believe Eddie and myself can still recall the paint mixture.
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The Navy UH-1L and HH-1Ks came to us painted a dark grey. To my knowledge, none of them were used as gunships when I was there.
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Ray,
Since we flew Army helicopters, which were Army Olive Drab (OD), a brown-green hue, we got Army parts as part of the "deed of gift" from the Army, but we are also privy to the Navy supply system so we could get Marine OD also, which was a black-green. And as mentioned, we sometimes mixed our own paint. Worked the two systems against each other as necessary.
I never saw a glossy paint job ever, except on Army general's personal birds once in a while, and they were from being waxed, I think, more than a glossy paint job, although I could be wrong fro sure. But we NEVER waxed our birds or used gloss paint.
Over time, our birds gradually trended to darker than the more uniform Army color, with mixed colors of OD (Army and Marine), and generations of sun fade of those colors to boot, which caused some observers to ask us what camouflage scheme we had applied. You can get good color on our website to show the dappled skin of the Seawolf.
Capture THAT complex combination of colors and you will honor us and our tired old birds best.
Tom
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true some were real dirty and came back looking black due to helps in places there were no water to wash them with
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Sorry, I see I never thanked all of you guys for the information. Thanks so much for taking time to respond. It is very much appreciated.
Ray
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In reply to this post by Roger Ek, Seawolf 25
The L's and K's were gray when I was there in 71-72.... they didn't carry rockets but had 60's mounted. When doing SEAL insertions and extractions free 60's were used.
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Joe,
Thanks for the info on Seawolf colors. I meant to get back to you. If you can still recall the color mix, I'd love to hear it. My e-mail address is Ultrasauros@hotmail.com. Thanks so much!
Ray
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Ray,
The post which says each Seawolf was unique is pretty much the truth. While they came to us in Army OD (green-brown) of various amounts of fade (from exposure to the SERIOUS Sun), they soon started to change. By 1970, we had Marine OD (green-black), plus some customized dark OD not unlike what Joe mentioned from the earliest days original repaint.
On Det, we would mix paint to repair battle damage or repaint skin after corrosion work (where we would strip to bare metal, treat, and repaint). That corrosion work was usually along the lines of stress (like where the rivets tacked on the skin to the frame stringers), so we would have these narrow lines of newer paint on the older fades, like a scaffolding outline. Sometimes, we would replace whole segments, like engine door cowlings, or cabin doors or pilot doors (when we had them installed, which was not so much), and that would make a whole section of fresh paint of Army OD. We did such corrosion work on det when we saw cracks, while serious corrosion control was left to when we turned in a bird for major work to the home guard. Home guard did have a paint shop, but we probably used it to repaint stolen jeeps more than to paint the aircraft.
Our tail booms were often covered with black stain from engine exhaust, which was really hard to wash off if the heated pores were allowed to cool with the carbon still there. It would sometimes dim the big letters NAVY, although we would clean that part even if we didn't have time to clean the whole tail boom. That exhaust stain was a bear to remove.
A really legit paint scheme on a model of a Seawolf, would have all these elements, and be DULL in color. The only time we flew shiny aircraft was through the rain. Our squadron emblem was on the nose electrnoic door, never the pilot doors, so it was usually nice and bright, a bright spot on our dull world.
While we never had a black Huey, there WAS the legend of the Black VC Huey, which was alleged to exist and which got its fuel by visitng outlying POL sites and helping themselves. I have had a few conversations with folks at POLs asking about our dark color (which was clearly darker than Army birds where some poague would say they thought for a little while that they were looking at the VC Black Huey.
Really funny incident where an adjacent Army shiny-waxed REMF Huey was querying Dong Tam tower about the black Huey beside them while we were topping off for a SEAL mission (and not using the radios by prior arrangement with the tower). Had to hustle a couple of SEALs over to that bird to shut them up when they would not obey the "ixnay from the owertay." The SEALs, in their legendary green faces war paint and unique clothing and unique weapons, used a ka-bar and a drawn .45 to get the attention of the pilots to shut the hell up. Not confirmed that those pilots didn't wet themselves as they received the message personally. We almost split a gut laughing.
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I remember an occasion in late 70 or early 71 when we were "supposed" to wash the tail booms down at Solid Anchor --------- someone had procured a few gallons of Gojo hand wash and all the gunners gathered to diligently work the hand cleaner magic ----------- well, one thing lead to another, and being the fine representatives of the US Navy that we were on Det 1, ......... it quickly melted down into a great Gojo fight !! ----- we were covered with the stuff, and looked like we had been covered with lard -------- I still remember Dave Smale putting the fire hose down the front of his SEAL swim trunks ----- Freddie T looked like a summer snowman ! ----- That stuff was SLIPPERY !! The PSP was coated with it
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that particular fight may be seen on the the dvd set under Michael Dobson 
You've never lived until you almost died, for those who fight for it
freedom has a flavor the protected will never Know!
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Locked
